No, its not. You can have religion without faith and faith without religion. They are only tied together in those who believe the propaganda.

Well, if we can agree on something, there’s hope for humanity yet!

If one looks at all the wars, the deaths, the witch hunts – So much of this was organised and instigated not by individuals with a similar belief, as a highly organised and disciplined force behind them that somehow manages to dictate ‘The Word of God’ to the gullible masses who then go out to do their bidding. This applies to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and all the various sects, castes and collections of nutcases from The Holy Roman Empire right down to the Waco siege bombers.

The Vatican holds more ancient books than anywhere in the world, but few are privy to read them. There is a theory that there is a fifth gospel, written by Christ himself (written during his 40 day disappearance), but apparently this would dispel an awful lot of the Catholic churches power, so it is kept buried so the lambs will never really know the truth.

You’re right, Gary. And I believe that these UK (but US funded/aided) groups are also used to reinforce discrimination in the US. Before the Prop 8 vote, I watched a video against gay marriage supposedly by a UK Christian group warning how ‘dreadful’ it was in the UK because we had CPs, and how California should beware. Yet further investigation found that this ‘UK’ group was a US-funded one with a UK face, so to speak. This way, the gullible can be persuaded a) that same sex unions don’t work and are demonstrably bad; and b)that the prejudice and bigotry in the US is just a common fear shared by many other people in the world.

Andy Armitage – you’ve hit the nail on the head. Personally, I think religion should NOT be included in Equality Legislation. I believe that only non-choices should be included – eg gender, age, race, sexuality, disability. A separate legislation could be drawn up covering beliefs, with religion not given any special protection above others. Of course, then people will worry that someoen with racist beliefs may demand that they’re protected, but if the Equality Law was higher than the Beliefs Law that wouldn’t be the case. To take an extreme view, someone might genuinely believe that they should kill another person (because the person’s done some awful thing or whatever), but we don’t exempt them from the Law just because they have a strongly-held belief. I detest the way religion (or, at least, some proponents) demand that the Law not apply to them.

While its not something I would normally do, I actually agree with RobN on this, Chester. Faith is a personal belief. Religion on the other hand is the organised coercion of the masses to homogenise their faith for the purpose of controlling them.

Look at the Catholic church: the bible they use is heavily selective, rejecting the “apocrypha gospels” of people like St Paul founder of the church himself, as they don’t fit their homogenised view of what faith should be. Their church is nothing like the original church followers of Jesus, its been warped for purpose of power and wealth.

Faith is nothing to do with religion, that’s just what those who run religions want you to believe, simply becuase it suits their aims. Religion is about people and those people who want to control wealth, subjugate, thought manipulation, create obedience, and maintain the status duo. Faith can be what ever you want it to be! That’s the difference.

I’m glad these amendments failed

You obviously cannot distinguish between “Bible-bashers” and “The Church” – The Church should really be called “God Ltd.” – It is essentially a business peddling magic spells and cure-alls for all ills. Do not confuse faith with religion. Idiots that go around quoting the bible are invariably harmless idiots. The Church is an entirely different matter, with members in very high places with considerable money and considerable influence. They are not to be underestimated, and I think they have played a key part in why Gay Marriage is not on the books. Labour were allowed to go as far as they could without stepping on ecclesiastical toes.

As Father Jack would say: “It’s an ecumenical matter”.

In the case of Ms Ladele, who was mentioned in the Lords, she was born in London to ‘devoutly Christian parents’, had a ‘strict religious’ upbringing in Nigeria and then further ‘education’ in the United States. Well you can just imagine what that involved. The truth is, if you want to live in a Nigerian or US-style society then you should go and live in Nigeria or the United States. Don’t bring this to Britain thank you. We don’t want the clock turned back to the dark ages.

Playing the poor discriminated-against Christian, Ms Ladele claims to like ‘meeting people at important moments’ in their lives and got on fine with gay colleagues. Oh those Christians who love everyone and are only discriminating out of love you understand…

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1034566/Christian-registrar-refused-marry-gay-couples-reveals-bullying-ordeal-hands-politically-correct-colleagues.html

And there is this ludicrous idea that a council can have a registrar who refuses to carry out civil partnerships and his/her colleagues will ‘cover’ for it. Well what happens when suddenly the council finds itself with several registrars who have these views, it can’t function and gay and lesbian couples end up being turned away?

Back in 1983 I had an experience where my doctor, on discovering that my partner was a man, told me I should get myself another doctor. I’m determined there will be no return to those days.

I’m not anti-immigration but I believe we need to be cautious about admitting a large number of people who have views that don’t fit with our tolerant modern society because, eventually, that bigotry will filter down into politics pressure groups.

But religion isn’t a minority, in that people choose it. Being gay is a minority, in that people don’t choose it. To say a religious believer is in a minority – in that sense of the word – is like saying someone who likes pear drops is in a minority, or someone who wears blue shoes. They are minorities, yes, but in this context we’re talking of minorities who are there not by their own volition, and therefore should be treated equally. This doesn’t mean to say we should be bastards to people who wear blue shoes (although I draw the line at pear drops), but they do have the choice.

The other Scottish one, St Andrew’s in Edinburgh, announced a while ago that it would comply with the law, at which point the Catholic Church cut its links with it. The same has happened for the 9 out of the 12 Catholic agencies there were in England and Wales, which all decided to comply with the law.